DeLorean Buyer's Guide - New Posts

DeLorean Buyer's Guide

Hood styles - all the details

3/15/2022

Over the course of building just under 9,000 cars between January 1981 and December 1982, there were three different styles of hood used on the DeLorean cars. While they are all interchangeable amongst model years and production dates, they have significant styling differences.

The first, with debossed style lines down the side and a "gas flap", were used on cars from the start of production, with VIN BD000500 up to VIN BD003200 or about 2,700 cars. On this hood, you are able to access the gas filler without opening the hood.

The second, with ONLY the debossed style lines down the side and WITHOUT a "gas flap" were used on cars from VIN BD003200 up through the end of the 1981 model year at VIN BD007199 or about 4,000 cars. On this hood, you must open the hood to access the gas filler.

The third, and final hood style, is a completely flat hood with NO style lines and NO "gas flap". These were used on cars from the start of 1982 model year production, with VIN CD010001 (there was no VIN CD010000) through the end of production at VIN DD020104 or about 2,287 cars. A self-adhesive cast aluminum emblem with the stylized "DeLorean" logo was attached in the left-hand front corner. The absence of the gas flap, like on the earlier hood above, means you must open the hood to access the gas filler.

Of these three hoods, only the last style is available as a "new original stock" part. The other two occasionally come available on the "used" market, and at the time this is written, will run between $3,000 and $6,000 depending on condition. The "gas flap" hoods tend to run near the higher end of that range.

While no documentation has yet surfaced to explain why the hood changed so often, a few engineering records exist that give the reason as "management decision", with no other details. Anecdotal stories abound about issues with stamping the stainless with regards to cracks around the corners of the gas flap causing a large number of rejected parts, but no "official" documentation has yet come to light.

Rarest production spec?

8/5/2021

Recently I was asked "what production specification is the most rare?" Rather than go off anecdotal comments from over the years, I took some time and researched it. By reviewing factory records held by the DeLorean Museum, it was confirmed that the gas hoods ended at VIN 3200 and that six gray interior cars were built as a trial in early July 1981 as VINs BD002436 through VIN BD002441 - the first three were automatic and the second three were manual. These cars were shipped to the USA in mid-July 1981.

Gray, auto, gas flap count = 3
Gray, manual, gas flap count = 3

From that point, gray interior cars were not built again until VIN BD002973 - a manual transmission - on August 17, 1981. This identical specification was built for and continued as gray/manual for the next 60 cars, through VIN BD003032.

Gray, auto, gas flap count = 3
Gray, manual, gas flap count = 63

Starting at BD003033, the factory started building gray/automatic cars through VIN BD003112 - another 80 cars.

Gray, auto, gas flap count = 83
Gray, manual, gas flap count = 63

At BD003113 they were back to gray/manual for another 87 cars through BD003200, where the gas flaps were discontinued in favor of the lined/no flap hoods.

Gray, auto, gas flap count = 83
Gray, manual, gas flap count = 150

So, out of 8,987 cars built, only 83 cars were built to the gray/automatic/gas flap specification - or about 0.9%. How many of these 83 gray/automatic/gas flap cars are left is unknown, but figuring an attrition rate of 30% over the past 40 years would mean about 53 of these cars may be left today. Below is a list of the VINs for these 83 cars - is yours on this list? Let me know!

What about the gold cars? I discount those as production cars due to the fact that these cars were not sold or offered by DeLorean dealers and were in fact sold by DMC prior to the car even being in production. You could not go into a dealership and buy one in 1981.

How about the Middle East cars? By most accounts there were 50 of them, all but one (perhaps) were 1982 models with automatic transmissions and flat hoods. These were assembled using many leftover, discontinued or superseded parts including early style carpets, dark grey wheels, front fender mounted antennas, Ducellier alternators and Craig radios for example. Basically, the cars used obsolete stock for these non-US market cars, which were never imported to the USA as new or sold in the USA. I discount these cars as they were an unintended factory spec, essentially built using these obsolete parts to reserve the latest specification parts for the primary US-market cars. That's not to say the Middle East cars aren't an interesting "asterisk" in the DeLorean production history, far from it - but one can infer from factory records that had the company been on more sound financial footing, these cars would have been built to the latest factory spec in terms of fenders, antennas, alternators, radios, etc.

Gray, Auto, Gas Flap VIN list

BD002436	BD003051	BD003072	BD003093
BD002437	BD003052	BD003073	BD003094
BD002438	BD003053	BD003074	BD003095
BD003033	BD003054	BD003075	B003096
BD003034	BD003055	BD003076	BD003097
BD003035	BD003056	BD003077	BD003098
BD003036	BD003057	BD003078	BD003099
BD003037	BD003058	BD003079	BD003100
BD003038	BD003059	BD003080	BD003101
BD003039	BD003060	BD003081	BD003102
BD003040	BD003061	BD003082	BD003103
BD003041	BD003062	BD003083	BD003104
BD003042	BD003063	BD003084	BD003105
BD003043	BD003064	BD003085	BD003106
BD003044	BD003065	BD003086	BD003107
BD003045	BD003066	BD003087	BD003108
BD003046	BD003067	BD003088	BD003109
BD003047	BD003068	BD003089	BD003110
BD003048	BD003069	BD003090	BD003111
BD003049	BD003070	BD003091	BD003112
BD003050	BD003071	BD003092	END

recent hagerty article on values...

7/20/2019

If you haven't read the recent article on Hagerty.com about rising DeLorean values, it's worth a read. Then come back here and get my thoughts on it...I'll wait.
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You're a fast reader, aren't you?

To most DeLorean owners (and would be owners) the rise in values is old news. Check out this chart with the values from the NADA Classic, Collectible and Exotic Cars Price Guide.

As you can see, the increases really started about the time John DeLorean passed away in 2005, peaking just before the great recession. Since then, values have steadily risen to the point they are today. Some have pointed to the 2015 "Back to the Future" day events causing an increase (that the data doesn't really support) and some speculate that the recent rise is due to the two DeLorean films recently released. That has certainly brought about greater interest from outside the core group of DeLorean buyers and enthusiasts, I'd bet.

To me, what is more interesting from this chart is that it clearly illustrates that better cars not only cost more (which is common sense) but also that the better cars have increased more in value, as well.

That's where The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles comes into play. Buying smarter by being educated about what you are considering purchasing makes it more likely you won't unknowingly buy a car in that "red line" zone on the chart above. Yes, you will pay more but if you are educated, you will get a better car, and in the long run, better cars cost less to own/maintain and if cared for, increase in value by a larger margin.

But what about buying a car in the yellow/red zone and fixing it up? Mostly it depends on the car you start with and your mechanical skills (or budget if you don't have the skills or time). How much of what needs to be done can you really do correctly by yourself? It's even more important to be aware of what you are buying here. As the cars get older, they don't get any better, or less expensive to repair. Prices for parts, labor, shop supplies typically always go up, very rarely do they go down.

Remember the keys:

Educate yourself - knowing good from bad saves you money in the long run.
Photos are nice, but no substitute for an in-person inspection.
If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

Until next time - enjoy your summer and reach out if you have any questions!

HAVE YOU SEEN ME?

6/1/2017

In the summer of 2014, my fiancee and I went to Northern Ireland and England for ten days of vacation, ostensibly to speak with former DMC/DMCL employees as part of research for another book on DeLorean I had planned.

While on the trip, we were able to spend some time with Barrie Wills, the longest serving employee of DMCL. Barrie shared with us his 130,000+ word memoirs of his time at DMCL and asked my advice on how to get it into print and in the hands of DeLorean owners and enthusiasts who would enjoy it.

We agreed on a plan where Barrie would supply the words and photos and I would dust off my page-layout skills and do the design and printing with a plan towards releasing book in time for "Back to the Future" day on October 21, 2015.

Though we missed it by a few weeks, "John Z, the DeLorean and Me...tales from an insider" shipped around the end of November 2015 after 17 months of edits, re-writes, chasing photo permissions, transcontinental Skype conferences, over a thousand emails, two slow boats from China (one to the UK and another to the USA) , a port strike in California and one very large Dropbox site.

After completing the design work on the book, and then shipping several hundred pre-orders in time for Christmas, I was ready for a break! About the same time the book was shipping, Congress passed and then-President Obama signed into law the "Fixing America's Surface Transportation" or FAST Act. This legislation carried the provision allowing for Low Volume Vehicle Manufacturing - basically allowing the manufacture of no more than 325 cars per year that resemble a car built at least 25 years ago with far less regulation than normally found in the automobile manufacturing industry.

So, in addition to my regular "day job" duties at DeLorean Motor Company, there have been some added tasks in creating a working "bill of materials" for this car, identifying the holes in the inventory, locating potential suppliers for these missing parts, sending out "requests for quotation" for many of the larger, longer lead-time items, speaking with the media, potential buyers of this car, talking with potential suppliers of everything from engines, chassis, interiors, to meeting federal, state and local government officials from Senators and Congressmen to economic development boards and much more.

So, that's why I've been "missing" for nearly two years! I still occasionally post to the Facebook page for the book, but I'll be making more of an effort to write a post now and again here, too.

john z, the delorean and me...

10/21/2015

Barrie Wills, the longest serving employee of DeLorean Motor Cars Limited (1978-1983), tells the inside story on the development of the car by Lotus, building of the factory, recruiting the staff and assembling the DeLorean car all in a record 28 months in strife-torn West Belfast, Northern Ireland. With 392 pages of text and hundreds of color and black and white photos, Barrie's book will be referenced in the DeLorean community for years to come.

I was pleased to be a part of getting this book into publication and have found it to be a fascinating read! Like my book, this is available from

now in japanese!

3/5/2015

I'm very pleased to announce the first foreign translation of The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles is now available.

Thanks to the efforts of long-time DeLorean owner Osamu Shimohara, who spent a great deal of time painstaking translating the English text, now the growing number of DeLorean enthusiasts in Japan are able to reap the benefits afforded to them by becoming educated about their potential purchase.

I don't plan to stock any of these for sale in the USA, but they are available on Amazon.co.jp and I have seen them on eBay.com, as well.

barrie wills says...

10/9/2014

I am honored to have Barrie Wills, the longest serving employee of DeLorean Motor Cars Limited, contribute an "Afterword" to The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles - his words are below...

Nearly 35 years after its market launch in 1981, the DeLorean remains - like Marmite - something one either loves or hates. Hated mainly by those who have rarely seen it let alone driven it, spurred on by a few so-called motoring journalists in Britain with a taxpayers’ axe to grind - loved by the many more better informed owners of the 6,500 of the 9,000 plus cars built that remain in service across the world, from North America to Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

When I was invited to visit today’s DeLorean Motor Company in Houston, Texas in 2007, I was more than impressed that the high standards of warehousing set in Dunmurry by material control manager Martin Graham were being maintained - using the same racks, pallets, cages and bins procured by chief buyer Norman McClinton and his team all those years ago. That so many of those parts sold to Consolidated International of Columbus, Ohio during DMCL’s liquidation in 1982 and packed so carefully by the last score or so of retained employees, under the supervision of Leif Montin, Dick Mulholland and Paul Murray, should still meet the needs of owners in a new Millennium, both amazed and more than gratified me.

Stephen Wynne is to be congratulated for his enthusiasm, entrepreneurialism and foresight in continuing to maintain the dream so expertly. But then one can expect nothing less of a ‘scouser’! The support of James Espey and the rest of the magnificent team in Texas has been crucial and well appreciated by the company’s many satisfied customers. James’ considerable efforts to re-source long-forgotten parts - by several extinct or malingering former suppliers - often seems inexhaustible.

Equally applaudable is his determination to ensure the needs of acquisition, restoration and service are best met through the publication of this excellent book. I expect readers have found its most thorough contents as helpful as I have found them educational. Despite being both chairman and a member of the small group that formed the combined DeLorean-Lotus product coordination team that guided the car through its engineering, test and development at Hethel, after reading it, I found the shortfall in my detailed knowledge of the car near-shameful.

I know owners will join me in thanking and congratulating James for his continuing dedication to the DeLorean cause. Long may it continue! That a portion of the proceeds of this invaluable book go towards the DeLorean Museum is also applaudable. Please keep up that good work as well for the sake of history, which - despite those immortal words of Henry Ford - is never ‘bunk’!

Barrie Wills
Meriden, UK
September 2014

Thank you, Barrie, for the kind words - I appreciate your thoughtfulness in providing the "Afterword" for the Buyer's Guide.

Barrie's book, which chronicles his four and a half years as the longest serving employee of DeLorean Motor Cars Limited (DMCL), tentatively titled John Z, the DeLorean and Me...tales from an insider, is due to be released in the late summer of 2015. Having been privy to an early draft, I can say without questions that this promises to be a book that every DeLorean fan will want to have in their library!

Updated Second Edition now available!

9/12/2014

The updated second edition of The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles is now available from Amazon.com, eBay.com, delorean.com and most DeLorean dealer locations.

As time passed after the book was first released in 2012, I came across a few things that I felt needed to be added in regards a some minor things to look for when evaluating a DeLorean. I also came across a listing of all the company cars used at the factory and for RHD development, which nicely accompanied similar data from the US-side of the company.

I also took the opportunity to re-take a few of the photographs and fix a couple typos that somehow got missed in all the rounds of being proofed the first time around.

As I was able to reach an agreement with a group in Japan to translate and publish the book into Japanese, it made sense to use the same text/photos/illustrations for both the English and Japanese versions. More details on the Japanese version will be forthcoming in 2015.

All in all, I am even more pleased with the way this edition has turned out, and think readers will be, as well.

Why low mileage DeLoreans don't carry the price premium sellers think they do...

2/19/2014

This is something that buyers run up against all the time. The seller thinks that because the DeLorean they are selling has "low miles" that it has extra value over and above a mechnically and cosmetically identical car simply for that reason alone. This is rarely the case.

A general rule of thumb regarding mileage is that typical used cars will average 12-15K miles per year. With that math, the typical 30 year old car would have in excess of 300,000 miles on the odometer. I can only think of a handful of DeLorean cars with anywhere near this kind of mileage on them.

A quick look at eBay listings of other makes and models of cars in the same age range as the DeLorean shows few cars in excess of 200,000 and most in the 100,000 mile or so range.

Relative to other collector cars of the same general era, there seems to be an abundance of DeLorean cars with low miles - less than 30,000 miles is normal. As I briefly mention in the book, there are multiple reasons for this - some good, some bad. I also talk about how ways you can use to determine the accuracy of the mileage shown on the odometer.

A couple of times a month, I get a phone call from someone with a very low mileage DeLorean for sale - sometimes even less than 50 miles. Most recently it was a car with just 7 miles on the odometer.

The seller invariably dismisses the fact that the car has admittedly been sitting most of its life, many times in less than optimum conditions. All they see is the low miles and believe the car must carry a significant price premium over other DeLorean cars. There are several fallacies in this thinking:

While a low mileage DeLorean car may have excellent cosmetics, it will very likely need the same amount or in some cases more (dollars and time) to be made mechanically sound as a higher mileage car. Think brakes, fuel, electrical, cooling, transmission, tires, weatherstripping, etc.
A fair number of low mileage DeLorean cars will need cosmetic attention, as well. Headliners, at a minimum, possibly stainless repair from being used as a "shelf" in the garage or being bumped by bikes, lawn equipment and trash cans moving in and out of the garage.
Rodent damage is more common in lower mileage cars. While they frequently leave the wiring alone, it's not unusual to see evidence of rodents in the A/C system (yes, it stinks), fusebox/relay compartment, storage cubby, jack stowage area, even under the intake in the engine - the latter of which can cause severe damage.

Compounding all that is the simple fact that most DeLorean cars today are being sold to people who want to drive and enjoy them (rather than display them). Therefore, the price premium being asked for the low mileage evaporates once the car is made to run correctly, driven and mileage begins to accumulate. This is even worse for DeLorean cars that have never been titled/registered and sold on a "Manufacturer's Statement of Origin" or MSO. As soon as the car is registered, a significant chunk of the price premium is lost without hope of recovery.

Sellers will sometimes naively believe that there is a museum or collector who will pay the premium for their ultra-low mileage DeLorean. Generally speaking, most museums are non-profits and few have the budget for something like this - and there are more sellers out there than buyers - some who will even consider donating their car for a tax deduction (or loan it for display - can you say free climate controlled, secure storage?).

The days of the car having appeal to lots of super high-end collectors willing to pay top dollar for cars to add to their collection are not here yet, either. And a smart collector know the economics discussed above and offers accordingly, as well.

So what mileage should you be looking for? In my mind, the sweet spot today is somewhere in the 20K or very low 30K range. That gives you some room to add miles - especially if you use it as a weekend/pleasure vehicle - and still have a car with less than 50K or so miles about 5-10 years down the road. Remember that a tankful of gas once a month is recommended (~200-250 miles) and if you must store the car over the winter months, proper storage is key. As more time passes, this "sweet spot" mileage number will probably rise somewhat.

What does this mean for buyer? A couple of things - don't get hung up on having a super low-mileage car, for one. They are almost always not worth the effort and added cost. That said, If you don't plan on keeping the car for long, consider your resale return. Lower mileage today with regular use means relatively lower miles at resale time. Higher miles today with regular use means even higher miles (and lower price) at resale all other things being equal.

Frame rust...quite possibly the #1 value-killer in DeLorean cars today...

9/13/2013

Unfortunately, the person who bought this car didn't have a copy of my book first. While the car looked okay-ish on the topside and interior, the extensive frame rust has put the new owner upside down before they could even get it on the road.Hopefully they will be able to unwind themselves from this transaction and get a better quality car.

Remember the factory frames appear grey in color (save for a few hundred very late VIN cars (undercoated cars - done by the company that bought all the unsold cars when DMC folded in 1982 - to hide surface rust that had formed on the cars that sat outside in storage from 1983 to early 1985 when the last cars were finally sold) as their mild steel construction was coated with an epoxy to help preent corrosion. Obviously, this car has seen a lot of bad-weather road use, haphazard repairs, coverups and out and out neglect.

The "layers" of rusted, separating metal here are cause for alarm - if it's that rusted in areas you can see, expect to see rust in the areas that you can't, as well. While some very late cars (as mentioned above) had some undercoating applied prior to sale, it was never applied on any that I have seen in such a ham-handed manner as this.

While some cars can get by with just a front frame extension replacement and be good cars, the levels of rust seen on the shock towers on this particular car gives me the most concern here. Notice the brake servo (booster) coated with rust, as well. Aftermarket front shocks, torn steering rack boot, rusted body mount bracket are also reasons to steer clear of this car.

A good shot of the front frame extension and the fuel tank closing plate - again, lots of rust evident alsong with tell-tale signs of previous repairs and cover-up attempts. The strange aftermarket (homebrew?) cooling fan shroud and non-stock wiring are also cause for concern.

The epoxy generally holds up well, but when exposed to salty roads and leaky brake/cluth hydraulics (which can soften and loosen the hard epoxy, exposing bare metal) it can end up like this.

As the car ages, we'll see more of this, and it is truly is a "buyer beware" world out there. Be an educated buyer and don't let this happen to you.